ANDT
An Interview with Kingsley Snow

A succession of hand-delivered packages began arriving at RTRFM in early 2011; press kits for a band nobody in the office had heard before. Seemingly without recordings or performances to promote, the packages instead contained monochrome photography covered with primitive drawings and enigmatic text; the pages of the hand-written mission statements laden with grandiosity, pseudo-mysticism and spelling mistakes. They called themselves ANDT and for a brief period the morbid curiosity of staff was piqued by the paucity of biographical information. Who were the band members? What music, if any, had they produced and how badly would it fail to meet the lofty promises of "transcendence" and "audio-pharmacoligica?" It was therefore a disappointment to subsequently learn that behind it all was a man they all knew; a man with a reputation for nonsense - for ruining parties with petty vandalism and rambling, incessant monologue in lieu of reciprocal conversation - a man only too keen to have it known that he -Jack Spencer - was ANDT. Spencer never delivered the music to back his claims and the few who remember would believe - justifiably - that it was a project that existed solely in his narcissistic fantasy when in reality it was not true; ANDT did exist and it was never in fact a solo project but a collaboration between Spencer and multi-instrumentalist Connie Tran. Their collected recordings are subject to an imminent release on New Hesperian; a sweaty, voyeuristic set of improvisations that harken to the late-noughties lo-fi psychedelic minimalism of Sun Araw, Blues Control or Shard Frequencies.


Jack Spencer, 2011, Excerpt from ANDT press kit

I've heard the recordings and they'e amazing.
That's very kind. I read that introduction you emailed me by the way; are you going to print that?

Not if you have a problem with any of it.
It's good but I don't understand the voyeurism thing. Jack had no interest in what other people were doing. I don't think I ever saw him actually listen to anyone. Everything he did seemed inspired by things originating entirely within his own head. I know that that's impossible but it's how it seemed.

I think it's something about the fidelity of the recordings and the loose nature of the performances - including what I assume are snippets of you and Jack conversing - which makes me feel like I'm eavesdropping on rehearsals. And it's probably also to do with the photos Jack sent into RTR which reminded me of surveillance footage. All those photos taken from inside cars like he's on a stake-out.
I never saw those things he sent out. The press kits.

Were you aware that he'd done it though?
Not until after he sent them when I'd hear about it through a friend. It was embarrassing. They'd mock me by throwing what Jack had apparently said back at me. I remember buying a new pedal and a friend would ask if it was for finding the "direct line to the ancients." I guessed it was something Jack had done because it was the kind of dumb thing he would say.

You've always maintained that ANDT was an unpleasant experience.
And it was entirely because of Jack. He was a bully.

What then motivated you to release these recordings?
Revenge. Knowing Jack never wanted this stuff released. That he was too scared to do it.

Was he difficult from the beginnings of the band?
He probably was but at that time I wasn't capable of noticing. I was really self-absorbed myself when we first met though for reasons different to Jack. I was extremely shy; had low self esteem. I barely knew who I was let alone capable of figuring other people out.


Jack Spencer, 2011, Excerpt from ANDT press kit

How did the band start?
We met when he approached me at a party in early 2008. He told me that I looked like I was into good music unlike anyone else there which I foolishly believed at the time. He probably believed it too.

What were you listening to?
Oh my god! So much of it is embarrassing now. El Guincho. Deerhunter. I was still really into The Strokes. And I actually thought my taste in music was one of my best qualities.

Did you and Jack ever date?
God no. That would have been the worst.

How long later did you decide to form a band?
That we decided? I think Jack decided almost immediately and he informed me of the decision then and there. That would have been during our first conversation. I told him that I'd never made music before and he said that was a good thing; that I'd play with "purity." He said he had a place to rehearse. And he went and got all the equipment. He made nearly all decisions for both of us; it's just what he was like. He'd often stop rehearsals and announce that we were going to the beach or going to his friend's restaurant.

I remember Jack talking endlessly about ANDT and he never acknowledged your part in the band.
Yeah. To be fair to him he probably never denied it either. I don't think he really talked about what he was actually doing, only the really big things he was going to do.

For somebody prone to self-promotion I've noticed he has very little online footprint.
Other than the fifteen-or-so facebook profiles?

He hasn't seemed to have done much with those.
You mean besides make a big promise that he never backed up before abandoning the profile? Then starting another one during his next manic spell. What about that article in the Subiaco Post? Have you seen that?

No.
It's on the first page of results when you google him. It's an interview about the failings of the mental health system he did when he was about twenty-one. He blamed his parents, the government, his school [ Christchurch Grammar -ed. ] without mentioning the amount of money his parents spent on private mental health clinics and psychiatrists or the prodigious amounts of drugs he was taking.


(Courtesy of Post Newspapers)

Drugs were a pretty big deal to him?
For sure. He'd take anything except for pot, which he said was for amateurs. I'm not exaggerating. He'd take anything a total stranger offered him if it were inside a little plastic bag or in the form of a pill.

Was ANDT a drug reference?
It was never explained to me.

I remember seeing ANDT graffiti everywhere during 2008.
Yeah after I'd already told my mother I was in this band and when I noticed Jack had been writing it everywhere I was terrified she'd see it.

You mentioned Jack's social media use; were the promises of albums or performances ever close to being fulfilled?
I do remember he booked that front room at The Civic which at the time was known as The Den. He planned it as some generic happening-type event which, in his telling, had never been done in the history of mankind. He wanted ambiophonic sound even though we'd only ever recorded in mono. And he had planned to screen film on every wall and bought all this expensive equipment. Then he got extreme anxiety and cancelled the whole thing on the day before the show. I think the only one surprised was the booking agent. He'd thought Jack was doing a great job with the promotion.

I remember he got it promoted on RTR.
It was a disaster. And in terms of releasing an album I don't think we ever really came close. Jack opened a myspace but never uploaded anything we recorded. And although Jack would mention album titles, or grandiose album concepts, we never sat down together to arrange any of our recordings into a releasable state.




Jack Spencer (Photos: Connie Tran)

You recorded all of your rehearsals?
Every one. Jack was constantly buying new microphones and other equipment.

Did that interfere with the performances?
Surprisingly not.

Was ANDT always an improvised band?
Mostly. Like I said I had no musical experience bar the few piano lessons my mum forced me to do as a child. So when we started, Jack would prompt me with ideas. I'd repeat really simple arpeggios on guitar and Jack would do whatever he wanted over the top.

How did it evolve beyond this process?
I don't know if we evolved much in any traditional sense. I got better on guitar. He'd listen to what I was doing with deep concentration and he'd be highly effusive with his praise but then he'd insist that we record it again, swapping instruments so he could redo what I'd done. I had to start again on a new instrument. It was hard for me to feel like there was any progression.

What about playing as a duo? Your feel for Jack's style?
Jack was incredibly inconsistent. Sometimes he'd play nothing for what seemed like forever. Other days he'd obsess over particular sounds, like the sound of certain sample on his drum machines which he'd tweak for an entire jam before he was finally happy but I couldn't tell the difference. Or he'd complain about certain sounds or frequencies that I swear weren't there. Or he'd line-up all these echo pedals and fiddle with them. He was obsessed with echo and delay. It was just so incredibly erratic. For a while he was obsessed with getting his guitar to sound like a flushing toilet. He said it was for symbolic reasons but even his philosophical justifications would change arbitrarily. He would go through periods were he was staunchly anti-digital. We'd have to delay rehearsals while he waited for some expensive vintage pedal to arrive by post. But then he discovered Guitar Rig and went fully digital. He would graffiti ALL OR NONE everywhere and he gave away all his pedals.

Frustrating.
It annoyed me but at the same time I was impressed by his ability to verbalise what he wanted to achieve and the reasons for why he played what he did, I said nothing because all I could say was "that sounds nice." It took a while to figure out that everything he said was full of shit.

It's amazing you remained together until 2013.
I quit for good in 2013 but we'd only played together sporadically in the 2-3 years prior to that.

What happened there? Was there a mutual loss of enthusiam?
No. Jack's behaviour got worse. His drug use got out of control and he would be gone for months at a time, whether he was on benders or in rehab programs his parents paid for. And when we did manage to get rehearsals scheduled he'd more often than not be off his face. He'd play nothing and blame me for it. He'd say really mean things. When I'd pack up my stuff to leave he would sulk or maybe smash a piece of his equipment.

That's abusive.
His parents bore the worst of it; over a long period of time. They had to kick him out of home not long after he'd finished school. He'd go through periods where he seemed capable of looking after himself and maintaining a decent relationship with his parents but I think it was simply a case of his anti-social behaviour being masked by the mess and recklessness of the other young people fresh out of home in a sharehouse. It took him a bit longer to piss somebody off but eventually he'd get kicked out of those places too and he'd end up back at his parents'. They couldn't cope with him living there so they stuck him in their investment property which is where ANDT would eventually rehearse. The period he lived here was our most productive as a band but it was never sustainable having Jack live in such a big house on his own. He was out of control with drugs and everything. He almost destroyed that place and his parents eventually got him evicted. And they needed restraining orders. His mum in particular was traumatised by it all. I remember getting a call from her one day; she sounded overly cheery and she asked me to go say hello to Jack at this new place they'd found him because he was a bit lonely. It didn't make much sense. The address she gave me was somewhere in Morley and even by Jack's standards the house was trashed. The front door was wide open, unable to close because it had been kicked in. Jack was on the floor of the front room in this weird slumped-forward position on his knees. He was a mess. He had stains down the front of his shirt. He looked at me when I walked in and I don't think he recognised me though he did glare at me with the most hateful expression. He was drooling too. I remember noticing about five CD copies of Love Deluxe by Sade on the floor in front of him as well as what is still to this day the biggest knife I've ever seen in my life. I walked out.

Was that when you quit?
Surprisingly no. He went off to rehab again and after a few months he got back in touch. At first it was just messages. Passing on his new phone number. Hoping I was doing well. We spoke and he sounded better than he had in years. He asked if I wanted to jam again and gave me his new address. I went down there one afternoon with my guitar and amp to discover that he was staying in a men-only homeless shelter. The staff wouldn't even let me in. When he came outside he asked me to drive him to score. That was 2013. I never saw him again after that.

Jack passed away in 2015 in mysterious circumstances.
There was nothing mysterious about it. He overdosed. I was told this by his mother.

Were you badly affected by his death?
No, I don't think so. I felt bad for his parents.

You haven't played any music since?
Nothing really. I know it was not really for me. It's probably why I tolerated the cancelled gigs. I have no interest in performing before an audience. Nothing to do with Jack, I'm too shy.

With the upcoming release I'm assuming for the first time in ANDT you've had to make unilateral decisions?
It didn't even require as many as you'd think. We have huge number of unedited recordings which I haven't got the time to got through so the performances on this release are pretty much in the form they were when we recorded them. Everything was recorded onto one track. Even the track titles were things I assume Jack came up with on the spot when he saved the files.

So there's a very good chance this isn't the last ANDT release?
There are hours and hours of recordings to go through but I don't have plans to do so in the near future. Nor do I have any motivation to rearrange the looser performances into a releasable form. Maybe when I can get back to Perth, after I'm done with my phD.



Recordings: 2008-2012 by ANDT is available to purchase via Bandcamp

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